LARA Living Room
Inside stories and real conversations from the Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs. LARA Living Room explores how regulation works, why it matters, and the people making it happen.
LARA Living Room
From Seed to Safety: Michigan’s Cannabis Reference Laboratory
In this episode, Director Claire Patterson shares how Michigan’s Cannabis Reference Laboratory strengthens cannabis testing, recalls, and consumer protection. Setting national standards for safe, trusted products.
Welcome back to the LARA Living Room. I'm your host, Anastasha Osborn, and I am so excited about today's episode. This is gonna be a really fun episode talking about cannabis and talking with one of my colleagues, Claire Patterson. And I'm just really excited to jump into this. So whether you're a consumer, a licensed business, or even a fellow LARA staff member, cannabis, as you know, is a growing industry here in our state. And making sure products are safe, tested, and reliable is really honestly the heart of the cannabis regulatory agency's mission. And like I mentioned, today I'm going to be joined by Claire Patterson. She is the director of Michigan's new cannabis reference laboratory. And Claire has been with the CRA for more than five years and is widely recognized as a leader in cannabis testing and product safety. And today she's here to share what this new laboratory means for Michigan and then how it strengthens consumer protection, supports businesses, as well as sets our state apart as a national leader. So let's jump into it. Go ahead and grab your coffee, settle in and get comfortable because you are now in the LARA living room. So, Claire, thank you so much for being here. Um, I want to start with this episode being really special to me because I actually started my state government career at the Cannabis Regulatory Agency. And I think I joined back in like 2018, it was like the summer of 2018. Granted, at that time we were the Bureau of Medical Marijuana Regulation, which is crazy. And then I was there through like two different name changes. And so that was really fun and exciting. So it feels like a really fun full circle moment to have you on today, not as just a colleague, but also, you know, in your new role. So I want to kind of first just congratulate you on your appointment as the Director of Michigan's first cannabis regulatory or reference laboratory. So tell us a little bit about your background and then what actually brought you to this role specifically.
Claire Patterson:Oh man, it's been a long ride to get here. Um, and it's gonna get a little woo-woo sounding. So I I grew up in a small town on the west side of the state, came out to Michigan State University for my undergrad, and quickly realized, yeah, I was in biochemistry. And I was like, this is not necessarily my thing. So I pivoted a little bit and went into plant biology and plant path. Um, and I actually, so I got my degree, my undergrad degree, and my graduate degree in those fields. And I remember, you know, back in the day I graduated in 2011 from undergrad people just joking, being like, Hey, are you are you gonna work with marijuana? Are you gonna work with weed? And at the time, yeah, I mean, no, you know, we had our our medical bill and people were kind of just doing their own thing. Um, so I always thought it was silly when people asked me that. Well, you know, come to find out, graduate, the first place I get hired is a cannabis testing lab. Um and it was great. It was, I mean, you know, back in the day it was a little bit different than it is now. You know, we still didn't have people licensed. Um, and it was it was tough. There was a lot of challenges working in the lab, trying to figure out what the lab needs to do to be a good laboratory in its own own right, in its own capacity, and then how to kind of fit that in with the new rules that were coming out at the time. Um, it was the first set of rules, so there was a lot of confusion. Um, and so when I kind of saw that happening, I was like, you know what? I feel like they need a scientist. Like we this is gonna happen. Um, so I hung out for a little bit longer, applied, couldn't get in because I was working at this this cannabis testing lab, you know, so we don't want any conflict of interest there. Um, and I actually had talked to our now executive director, who's the the enforcement manager at the time, Brian Hanna. And he was like, you know, you you can't be at this place, you gotta make a move, make a jump, and we'll see you soon. Um so I was fortunate enough that another position opened up. I had gone to Michigan State, um, was doing trials there for pesticide testing, and then quickly made my way into the CRA, I swear, I manifested this position. Um, you know, I've thought about this for a long time, and it feels really good to be on the ground helping this industry grow.
Anastasha Osborn:Yeah. And for our listeners, I just we were having a little chat before we started recording, but I have to just point out the fact that not only is Claire a woman in STEM, because that's what I would call you, thank you, but also she's a mother of three. And when she first came to the CRA, she was very much pregnant. We were joking about it because you know, to still get to where you are as a mother, which is also a job in and of itself. So I want to give you your kudos.
Claire Patterson:Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, it's it's been a long road, but I feel like the you know, my my passions on both sides can exist, and I've been fortunate enough to have the space to grow into both motherhood and you know my role as a director, and it's it's been really amazing.
Anastasha Osborn:That's awesome. Okay, so let's talk about what a cannabis reference laboratory is and why it's important that Michigan is establishing one.
Claire Patterson:So a reference laboratory is something that basically provides an internal source of truth. Um, so our laboratory, obviously, we're not up and running yet. We have our lab built, we have instruments, we're getting staffed. So we're going through the same hoops that our license labs go through when it comes to validation and you know the standards that we hold. The difference being, of course, that we know we're being held to these extremely high standards. So internally, we will do our testing, and that testing will support not just the industry itself, but also the CRA, its enforcement efforts and whatnot. Um, and right now it's challenging because if we want to know what a thing is, you know, whether it's a package of marijuana flour or an edible infused product, we have to essentially rely on the results that the labs give us. And if there's any dispute, then you know, we may have to contract other labs to say, hey, can you test this? But that's hard because we can't pay them. Um, you know, and that's not fair to them. That's that's a drain on their resources. So for us, it really is bringing that back in-house and being able to give good, reliable, quick data to the CRA when they need it for their purposes, but also to be kind of a you know, a gold standard tiebreaker in instances where there are disputes between test results, between labs, between different cultivators, processors, etc. So it really is just to kind of set that, you know, level baseline and say, here's what we're gonna compare it to, you know, here's all of our data. Now we can move forward and make a a real accurate, precise decision on how we're gonna handle this product.
Anastasha Osborn:Okay. And so there still will be other labs that can be licensed still. Yeah, this is just like you said, kind of the tiebreaker. Mm-hmm.
Claire Patterson:Okay, yep, absolutely. And that's super important too. Um, you know, that's a great question because you know, when we first kind of announced what we were doing, we had some labs and some other people that were really concerned, like, hey, are you are you taking business away from our labs? Absolutely not. That is is not something that we ever plan to do, it's not something that we want to do. Um, we're really there just to help build that scientific community and support the labs more so. Um, you know, right now is really tough for them. Uh, they're they're dealing with a lot of different test results coming from different places. You know, I've heard a lot of labs talk about how hard it is to compete. And we're really hoping that our presence there, serving as that tiebreaker, as that standard, um, can kind of help build that community into a space where we all value accuracy and precision and integrity in that space. It's it's super important.
Anastasha Osborn:Yeah. Well, I think it's exciting and it's it gonna be a great idea. And I think that it's not just gonna be another lab, like you mentioned, it's gonna kind of be that hub for setting the gold standard. So, from a consumer's perspective, how does the reference labs work um make products safer and then more reliable for the public?
Claire Patterson:That's a great question, too. So, I mean, the the big thing is, of course, you know, we're still gonna have our products tested by our licensed labs. Um, but having the reference lab there kind of serves as a watchdog, you know, it's it's not our favorite word. But we as a community hold one another accountable, especially in the sciences and in many places. Um, you know, so to have a an entity that is holding the labs accountable, is holding ourselves accountable, that means that we can be more sure that our product testing is correct. Um, and you know, if the labs are are testing something, the reference lab goes, picks it up, we verify it, we say, hey, yeah, they they are spot on. Um, and we will be assessing that kind of stuff to make sure that consumers do have confidence in what's out in the field for purchase and what those consumers are able to buy. And so we're hoping that by you know providing that extra layer of oversight kind of, but also um community, that we can really encourage the consumers to build trust in our space and can trust one another that we're we're always putting out accurate results, whether it's the state reference lab or one of our license laboratories.
Anastasha Osborn:Yeah. So at the end of the day, it sounds like it's it comes down to trust and knowing that what's on the label is truly what is in the product itself. So every now and then we'll hear in the news um about recalls within the cannabis industry. So if that happens, what role will this reference laboratory play kind of in protecting consumers and also ensuring accurate results?
Claire Patterson:Oh yeah, that's that's a great space for us. Um and right now, of course, like I said, we're not operating, but the way that we have imagined this is that if there is some report of, for example, you know, an adverse reaction or an inaccurate label, then that's something that enforcement, our enforcement, CRA enforcement, can contact us and say, hey, you know, we we have some questions about this product, you know, there's a discrepancy in test results, there's whatever the case may be. Go get it, go test it, figure out what it truly is, what is its chemical composition? Um, you know, are there any contaminants, contaminants, excuse me, in there? And right now, enforcement when they when they have to do that, they have to rely on our license labs. And again, there's uh an economic drain there because often those labs don't get paid for the tests that they perform. Um and they're busy. So, you know, there can be a pretty big delay when enforcement asks them to go out and get something for testing. There can be a delay to how long they get out there, um, a delay into you know getting the test results back to us. It's just a lot to coordinate. So with us, it really um it'll really cut that time down so that we can get right out there. We don't have to worry about you know the samples that we're putting out for clients in the industry because we don't we don't have them. Um, so the timeliness is going to be a huge thing, but also you know, being able to provide that that tiebreaker if they have a recall going on, there's conflicting test results. For example, it it's not uncommon for that to happen. And we can come in and say, nope, this is the real truth. We can sample at a retail location, we could sample at any location and kind of fit those pieces back together and say, you know, this this is the big picture of what we're really dealing with in this product. So, I mean, while our role is not to enforce, our role is not to make any decisions about what happens with that product. We are there to give the truth. Yeah. Um, and I think that's a really important role to have. And we all take it very seriously. Uh, the staff I have so far and the ones that I will hire too, we're all very, very committed to making sure that this source of truth exists for the industry at large.
Anastasha Osborn:Yeah. You mentioned kind of a little bit about timeline and how long it can take on average, you know, ballpark. How long does that take if you need to test something?
Claire Patterson:So, I mean, if you're a licensed laboratory, things like that are gonna take a little longer. You know, you take a couple, two, three days to get out to a site, you know, a couple hours, right, to actually get the sample, but you have to drive it back to your lab. So generally, when we see licensed labs doing that, it's usually a week to two week turnaround, you know, depending on their workload. Um, but for us, you know, we can be mobilized quick. We can we get a notification Tuesday morning, we can go out Tuesday afternoon, get what we need to get, um, bring that back to the lab and test it. And typically, you know, testing on our instruments and what we would expect for for test completion is three to five days, depending on what we're using, um, what needs to be tested. Some tests take a little bit longer than others. For example, like microbials take time just because those little critters need to grow. Um, and some of the other tests, the analytical tests are faster. So, really, it depends on what our team will need, and we can prioritize that too. Like if they're worried about pesticides, we can get those answers out, you know, in 48 hours.
Anastasha Osborn:Okay. And still in the vein of timelines, you kind of mentioned you guys aren't the laboratory's not up and running quite yet. Is there a date yet that you guys have in mind? There is.
Claire Patterson:We well, I shouldn't say we are ambitious, I am ambitious. Um, and my team is ambitious right along with me. They support me through that ambition sometimes. So initially, in what we had said was June 2026, we want to be operational. Um, and right now, you know, we're in that process. We're going through instrument familiarization, we're getting everything set up and spec'd and tuned. Um one caveat to that is we we really need to do our validations on marijuana instead of hemp. And right now we're trying to figure out how we can legally have that in our laboratory space. Um, so we've been working with lawmakers and um, you know, our our legislative assistant and the director and operations director, all of leadership has been a part of this in helping us try to get through the um the hurdles. Yeah, and they're not huge hurdles, you know. We've been fortunate enough to be granted these funds to build this space. We're just waiting for that last piece of the puzzle to fall into place. And we're we're ready. I have to say, I have a validation plan that starts in November and January and also April, just in case, you know, just to kind of plan when we may see that approval come through so that we have a clear path forward. And if it gets to April and I have to plan out some more, I will. Um, you know, I hope it doesn't come to that. But we're still in the background doing a ton of stuff, um, preparing for what we'll also be doing, which are technical audits of the laboratories. Um, and so those won't just be testing, we'll be actually, you know, in in our professional capacity, going in as auditors of their processes, their procedures, really the nitty-gritty, the boring science stuff for a lot of people, you know. Um, but really just to hold ourselves and to hold them accountable for the day-to-day operations. And, you know, we're writing SOPs, we're doing all the fun stuff, we're just waiting for that last piece of the puzzle.
Anastasha Osborn:Yeah, that's exciting. And for people who probably don't know, um, the laboratory itself is going to be within the same building that the cannabis right agency actually is housed. Yeah. So you guys aren't gonna have like an off-site lab.
Claire Patterson:No, no, we are right there with our coworkers, which is kind of nice. Um, for us and for them, you know, it as laboratorians, we are often pushed into a really small space. And, you know, that space often doesn't have windows, and we're stuck in the lab space and we don't know what time or day it is. Um, but no, we're right there with our coworkers. We can pop out, have lunch, do all that kind of stuff, and they also have the benefit of being able to hop over and see our lab and get lab tours. So a lot of our team has been kind of sneaking in, like, hey, yeah, can we take a peek? Yeah, you're like, come on in. Yeah, no, it's awesome to see everyone's interest in it. You know, folks that are not scientists are really excited, and I love talking about science to people who aren't scientists because um, you know, it kind of opens opens those doors and bridges those lines of communication that are so important in this space.
Anastasha Osborn:I know you said microbial, and I was like, what is wow? What is that?
Claire Patterson:It's fair. It's it's bacteria and fungi, it's all the little micro critters that we don't see that sometimes make us sick.
Anastasha Osborn:And that ends up getting into the products we're saying. That's what you guys are looking for. Yeah. Interesting. Okay, well, it sounds like what you guys are building is a lot in line with kind of LARA's mission of protecting people, promoting business. And I know one of like your guys' um mission statements is to be national leaders in the cannabis space.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Anastasha Osborn:And I think you guys are doing a great job at that. And so I kind of want to just end with looking ahead what excites you most about the reference laboratory and kind of how it's gonna be shaping safe cannabis uh products here in Michigan.
Claire Patterson:Oh wow. Um, so I I love our mission of being a leader in the nation as someone who is, you know, like I said, a little ambitious on my own. I think that's a great, um, a great ideal to hold and a goal to work for. Um, and right now, you know, it's we're a part of CANRA. I personally had up one of our chairs in CANRA for our lab testing and product safety committee. And it's a great space to be able to talk to regulators from all across the nation about issues that they're having, that we're having, shared experiences, and it that sense of community has been really important to me. Um, you know, having the national scope of what's going on, pairing that with what's going on in Michigan, being able to connect with our licensees and our labs. And, you know, what really needs to happen, and what I what I think that we're moving toward is this greater acceptance of cannabis science as fact instead of um not that it's fiction, but you know, people just it's a new field, it's a new field of science. They're for obvious reasons, you know, federal scheduling. There hasn't been a ton of research. And I think that being able to work in Michigan, where I do think that we are a top state for cannabis, um, being able to work with the amazing folks here and then working with the folks nationally to kind of pair these ideas about what will work in our economy, in our ecosystem, what works nationally, and then sort of bridging that gap to say, you know, this is what we've identified as best practices in this particular field of science. So really being on that cutting edge is so exciting to me. Um, and I know that's what excites a lot of other scientists in this space. It can be challenging and frustrating. That's also kind of part of being a scientist, though. So it's almost kind of the draw that we have this really big hill to climb. And I know we can do it. You know, I know that there are enough grapevines at our agency, within our licensees, in the nation that can really build up this community. And that is such a a passion project of mine. That's really why I came to the CRA. It's it's all kind of coming to fruition, and I think it's just beautiful to see that it's it's come so far in such a you know, a short but long time. It's I mean, I've been with with the CRA for six years now, so yeah, feels like a long time, but it really hasn't been.
Anastasha Osborn:Yeah. Well, I'm excited, and I know I speak for probably a lot of people here in Michigan that they're excited to have something that can be kind of um not only a voice of reason, but um, you know, a place of truth. And so I'm excited to see it up and running. I am gonna be delusional with you and just say that yes, you guys will be up and running sooner rather than later. Thank you. And yeah, we're excited to just kind of see where everything goes, and I wish you and your team the best of luck.
Claire Patterson:Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. We're looking forward to it, and we appreciate all the support from the Michigan community. It we couldn't do it without you guys.
Anastasha Osborn:Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here, and I appreciate your time. Thanks. To our listeners, whether you are a consumer, a licensed business, a part of our LARA family, the work of the Canvas Reference Laboratory is about one thing, and that is protecting people while supporting a safe and fair industry here in Michigan. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and hope that you learned something new. And thank you for tuning in from our living room to yours. We'll see you next time.
