LARA Living Room
Inside stories and real conversations from the Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs. LARA Living Room explores how regulation works, why it matters, and the people making it happen.
LARA Living Room
Regulating Cannabis and Liquor in Michigan
Leaders from the CRA and MLCC discuss how they regulate cannabis and liquor to ensure compliance, foster industry growth, and protect the public.
Thank you. Welcome back to the LARA Living Room, the podcast where Michigan's public service meets real talk. I'm your host, Anastasha Osborn, and today's episode is all about two industries that get a lot of attention and honestly, even more questions. I'm talking about cannabis and alcohol. So whether you are a business owner, a casual consumer, or you're like me and you're wondering, why do I need to scan my ID at the liquor store? Well, we've got some answers for you. And to help me answer these questions, I'll be joined by two people, Brian Hanna, who is Executive Director of the Cannabis Regulatory Agency, also known as the CRA, and Kristin Beltzer, who is the Chair of the Michigan Liquor Control Commission, also known as MLCC. Now, this being our sixth episode, you already know what to do. Fill up your coffee, grab a seat, get comfortable, because you are now in the LARA Living Room. Brian and Kristin, thank you so much for both being here. Before we really dive in, I would love to hear about how you both would describe what you actually do, and then maybe even more interestingly, what do people think that you do? Brian, go ahead and kick us off.
Brian Hanna:Brian Hanna, Executive Director of the Cannabis Regulatory Agency. I've been with this agency since about 2017, and I've been in this role for nearly three years. I'm wholly responsible for the agency's operations, policy, procedures, communicating. We have many different positions that fill the needs of operations and policy. My role essentially is to lead the agency, but at the same time really engage the public stakeholders industry. lobbyists, lawmakers, anybody, citizens in not only Michigan, but also people with perspectives on the cannabis industry across the United States. I'm also a board member of the Cannabis Regulators Association, a proud member of that. And, you know, Us regulated cannabis states really work together because there is very little federal involvement right now in this space due to the current nature of the federal laws. So it is a state-by-state team effort, and it's take a lot of information and be really, really adaptable. And I also say that CRA also stands for change right again. So we are very adaptable and ready for change as things develop vastly. So we get a lot of questions, obviously, friends, family, people that not necessarily are in the industry of what we regulate when it comes to cannabis regulatory body. But probably the first question we get is, why is marijuana spelled with an H? It's very unique to the state of Michigan. And across the country, I think we're the only ones that do it that way. And an explaining of the origins of state law and where that came from and the originators of that from the original laws in the state of Michigan. But we get a all the time and it's a great opportunity to you know share with the general public but also you know people that you know and the important work that we do and what we do and the fact of the matter is that in what we do in our agency we're pioneers you know cannabis regulations are the beginnings in this country our program started with different name changes and really took off in 2008 and here we are in 2025 with almost 182 employees and several name changes and several different variants is what we do, and we're pioneers. So it's really a great opportunity to tell people that we're doing something for the first time. We are at the very front edge of science as it continues to develop when it comes to products and how they should be regulated, and also protecting children and how to balance the needs of the industry with also protecting consumers at the same time. So it's cool to have those conversations.
Anastasha Osborn:Kristen, what about you?
Kristin Beltzer:Thank you so much for having me. I'm Kristin Belter. I'm chair of the Michigan Liquor Control Commission and I serve with four other commissioners. I'm a licensing commissioner as well as Dennis O'Shovey. He's a licensing commissioner and Hoon Young Hopgood. And then we have two appeals commissioners and that is Eddie Toma and Lee Gonzalez. So we make up the five commissioners for the MLCC. I will tell you that our history is a little bit different than Brian's. You know, the CRA has been around for probably about six or seven years now, and the MLCC has been around for 90. We had an opportunity to celebrate our 90th anniversary here in the last year and a half and are incredibly proud of the work that we've done and the progress that the MLCC has made. Great question on what do people ask you that you do. And we have an opportunity now. We've created a program through the MLCC called MLCC on the Road. And we get out into communities and talk to people, businesses, entrepreneurs, stakeholders about the process and how to get into it. And we think that that proactive approach has really served people very well. We want to very much like you guys say all the time, And we're doing that. And I think it's made a big difference with people that we're not just a bureaucracy that sits in Lansing and makes decisions, but we're real people who get out into communities and work with people and provide a customer service so that they can be successful. And it's something that we pride ourselves on. And we found that that proactive approach has been very, very beneficial to really kind of cutting through some of the pitfalls. Thank you. and for them to feel better about the whole process. And that's what we want for them. We want people to feel comfortable about what they're doing. So much of this is brand new to them. And for us to be able to get out and educate too has really, really been a great hallmark of the work that we're doing. Our mission is to make alcoholic beverages available for consumption while protecting the consumer and the general public. And we do that through the regulation of those involved in the sale and distribution of alcoholic products. And I think it really comes down to that. It is an opportunity for us to promote business in the state of Michigan while also protecting the general welfare of people and making sure that we've got standards in place that protect the
Anastasha Osborn:Brian, I want to start with cannabis. This industry, no pun intended, has grown really fast. And I imagine that your team has had to keep up with all kinds of changes. So what's the heart of your work right now? And then what do you want, let's say, the average person to know about what the CRA is actually responsible for?
Brian Hanna:Yeah, that's a great question. So a lot of change. And it is fast and it's rapid moving. You know, we issued our first medical marijuana facility license in 2018. We issued our first adult use marijuana business license in November of 2019. And now we have over 4,000 licenses. We've grown exponentially fast. And the heart of our work is at the same time of regulating and making new rules. That is really the heart of what we're doing right now is working on our new rule set is doing a lot of listening and try to understand the best practices and best scientific stances that we should take when it comes to testing protocols, labeling protocols, et cetera, for the products. You know, our mission statement at the end of the day is really comes down to two things. We want to be a national leader that supports businesses, but at the same time protects consumer health and safety. And to do that, you have to do a lot of listening, a lot of conversations. And so we started by putting out our new rule concepts in 2023. And here we are two years later, we are getting ready to take all that feedback and have our new rule set in front of JCAR here, hopefully in the fall. And so really what we're doing is getting that new rule set out. And we had two different instances in which we received public feedback, which is really cool. That was a new process for us to do it, get information on the front end as we're making the rules. did it again with the normal rule banking process. And what the average person to know is, you know, we're responsible for marijuana business licensees. We do have a patient and caregiver registry program as well. Our responsibility really is to issue those registrations as far as regulating that. That is more of a law enforcement, not a CRA stance based off of current law. And we also have portions of hemp too. We also have industrial hemp production licenses that we are responsible for portions of the hemp. So we have four major acts that are responsible for it. It's constantly moving and evolving. And it's great to be doing something where we're definitely not bored and we're getting a lot of feedback and a lot of quick, rapid changes to keep the industry going and protecting consumer health and safety.
Anastasha Osborn:Okay, Kristin, how about liquor? I assume most people probably only think about your work when they're applying for a liquor license, or let's say they're getting carded at the bar. But I know it has to be way more than that. So can you just walk us through a little bit about what your team's focused on behind the scenes?
Kristin Beltzer:Absolutely. And that too is a really good question. I will tell you kind of our motto is that we don't just license and walk away. We want to be that resource for our applicants, our licensees, to continually come back to us about what they need to do. And I think that sometimes people are a little confused about the whole process and how it works. We are proud to be part of a three-tier system in Michigan. It's really the state's alcohol regulatory structure. It works very, very well for us. This system divides really three distinct tiers, which are the manufacturer, supplier, as well as the wholesaler and distributors, as well as the retailer. And, you know, we have 20,000 retail licensees in the state of Michigan. We are the largest control state in the nation. We are proud of that and the work that we're doing. But I think that sometimes people, they get a little confused about that we just present a license to someone, and then we don't pay attention anymore. And that's That's not true. I mean, our focus here is truly about commerce. You know, we want the state of Michigan to do really well. But we also want the public health to be a big concern. And we play a big role there, too, in terms of making sure that people are checking IDs, that they understand about a driver's license and what it looks like. There's a lot of education that goes into that. I've had an opportunity to take the TIPS and TAM training myself, so I know what an applicant is up against and what they're doing. And we find that we encourage business owners to do this as well, not just the people who serve in an on-premise or off-premise location, but for the business owners to really understand that system too. And when they do that, I think it really supports the overall safety of their business and prevents underage drinking in the purchasing of alcohol for people under the age of 21.
Anastasha Osborn:I want to talk a little bit about some trends, Brian, specifically in the cannabis world. Is there something that we are seeing that's changing quickly? Like, are there new products? Is there more safety focus? What is it that we should actually be paying attention to more?
Brian Hanna:Well, what's really interesting is, one, let's start at the top, potential federal changes. There are several different legislative approaches that Washington, D.C. are looking to make at the federal level, whether it's rescheduling, descheduling, or not doing any of those activities with marijuana. Potential changes with the 2018 Farm Bill, we're paying attention to all those things that are happening at the federal level, and I think that really comes back to starting from that position and then working with other states of How could that impact us? Will that change our state models? Are there adaptations we would have to do? The really big, big picture long term is if there is federal change when it comes to any kind of marijuana or hemp program is how would the state interact with other states and how would those products move through these different systems at the same time? So that's an overarching thing that we're continuously taking a look at and has potential for changing rapidly at any minute. And at the same time, you know, the economics of the market in Michigan honestly are difficult at this time due to overproduction. And what we do, and we view this as a civil affairs mission of what we do at the CRA, is a lot of communications with license holders and industry stakeholders of letting them know that, look, CRA is part of the executive branch. Any of these things that would need to be changed outside of our rules that we have control over would have to be law changes and how to engage lawmakers and what issues of which need to be engaged with specific I'll give you an example. In the state of Michigan, under our current laws for regulating a marijuana industry, the state does not have the ability to cap licenses. So right now, in our current situation, we have more marijuana grow product than we do actual retailers to distribute those. And what you have is you have a situation in which the average price per ounce of marijuana in 2019 was approximately $500 an ounce. It's now down to $63. So for a business that planned their return on investment at a certain price point, the market is flooded with product, probably more than Michigan's ever had in its entire history, right? And so when you're dealing with a state in which these products cannot cross state lines, what should the program look like? What should the economy look like? And at the end of the day, this is CRA's mission to advise those with licenses and those that are interested in the industry that, look, these are conversations that we had with us, with lawmakers, because at the end of the day, we need the laws to change if people want to have the CRA to have certain authorities. The other things we're paying attention to is we know that there are issues when it comes to testing in this environment. There are a lot of proprietary testing methods. And what we have is we have accusations of lab fraud and THC potency, where a certain lab or a business will say that the potency is higher than it should be. And so we're investigating those things. And we're very proud to have a reference lab that will be up and running here very soon. We just got our certificate of occupancy. And we hope to have our reference lab up running second quarter next year.
Anastasha Osborn:And then in the alcohol or liquor world, Kristin, is it still all about, you know, like craft beers and seltzers or have you noticed that there's going to be a bigger shift with something else happening?
Kristin Beltzer:Well, we see a lot of movement. And I will tell you that, you know, the beer industry has suffered a little bit. I think sometimes it's very cyclical. We are seeing an uptick in spirits in regards to tequila, a lot of RTDs, especially in the summer in Michigan. Those RTDs are very popular. You know, it is something that we keep a really close eye on. We try and get a our stakeholders out there too. And I'll give you an example that a couple of years ago, we had Proximo Spirits come to us. They have 1800 tequila. It is the official tequila of the Detroit Lions. The Lions were having an incredible year. And so we sat down and we started talking a little bit about creating a Lions logo for them to be able to put onto the 1800 tequila bottle. It had a blue top. and then a beautiful silver and blue logo that they put on it. We worked with our finance department and we have a new code on that. So they could keep track, we could keep track as to the popularity of that. And I will tell you, I think in the first three or four months, we sold $3 million worth of that. Having people come in from Ohio and Illinois to purchase the especially Lion's Bottles. And it was a win-win for everybody. And so, you know, when we talk a little bit about where things suffer, We try and be solution oriented and figure out ways, how can we help in that particular area and what can we do? So we're talking to our partners all the time about opportunities to showcase their products, but also, you know, how do these trends and demographics change? And we work very, very closely with NABGA, which is the National Alcohol Beverage Control Association. We're going to host their president and CEO, Neil Inslee, in a couple of weeks. He's going to come to Michigan. We're going to host him down in Detroit. And they do a lot of data and analysis so that we can continue to kind of watch what some of these trends are and really be a little bit nimble in terms of working with our industry stakeholders on how they can pivot a little bit and what they might need to do. So it really kind of sometimes it seems like a little bit of a downer scenario, but we always try and turn it into a positive. And I think that we've been very successful in doing that.
Anastasha Osborn:So as we all know, liquor and cannabis are both substances that people can consume, but your agencies regulate them in totally different lanes. Do you guys ever swap notes or trade lessons or maybe, I don't know, grab a cup of coffee just to talk shop?
Brian Hanna:Oh, yeah, we have conversations. I mean, talking to your state partners is important. You know, there are going to be certain intersections in certain areas, but it's good to have situational awareness of what is happening in another agency. And it's great to have a partnership like MLCC and our other state partners as well. I think open dialogue and have regular communications of things that we're seeing, things that we're doing with. And at the end of the day, you know, we do look at MLCC regularly. as, hey, they've been doing this for some time compared to us. We are a very nascent industry and a very nascent agency. So anytime that we can identify tips and tricks that kind of help us out, we're always looking for. So we appreciate the communications.
Kristin Beltzer:Yeah, I'm in agreement with Brian. He and his team do a great job. We've had some really great conversations. Matter of fact, I think that we try and talk quarterly and get everybody on the line to talk a little bit just about You know, what is happening in the particular industries? A lot of conversation sometimes about both cannabis and hemp as well as alcohol and how those worlds could potentially come together or what they look like. And I really appreciate that our legislative teams really have an opportunity to talk and kind of share best practices. I know that our office, especially Dave Marvin, our executive services director, was exceptionally helpful when cannabis was really beginning in opportunities to kind of talk about the legislative process and what we do. So, you know, we are really pleased with the relationship that we have. That's what we're all about. We are about collaboration and building partnerships with people and working through things. And, you know, it's only good for the state of Michigan if we are all on the same page and working together. And so, you know, you're going to find some states like Oregon are going to have alcohol and cannabis together. Dialogue on that is always very interesting. And we certainly are willing to come to the table and continue to have conversations about what's best for Michigan and how do we move forward together.
Anastasha Osborn:All right, while we're wrapping up this episode, I want to ask just one last question, and that is, is there anything that you think the public should know about your two agencies, and maybe even something that they might not already know?
Brian Hanna:Sure. Great question. So the CRA is very, very close to signing our first compact agreement with a tribe in the state of Michigan to integrate marijuana products from that tribe with the industry, licensed industry in the state of Michigan. We're very excited about that. We'll have news to share here very soon, but we are hours, days away from making that announcement. So we're excited about that.
Kristin Beltzer:Yeah. You know, I would be remiss if I didn't give a little shout out to our three authorized That is RNDC, Great Lakes Wine and Spirits, as well as Imperial Beverage. And these three companies are instrumental in providing the product to our consumers and to our online or on-premise and off-premise stakeholders. And, you know, we are really proud of the fact that, you know, they handpick over one million bottles a week. to be distributed. One million. And these are handpicked. This is not a machine that's doing this. These are people. And so the jobs that they provide, they do 16,000 deliveries a week. It's a lot of work. And they have been wonderful partners with us. We appreciate the opportunity to work with them. But they really are the heart and soul of these deliveries and getting this product out. And so I want to make sure that I gave them a big pat on the back because we enjoy working with them and they too are very focused on What's good for Michigan? And a lot of times they've got a lot of issues that they have to deal through in terms of their workforce, keeping people in the warehouse and picking bottles and doing those kind of things. And so I think a lot of times people, they don't realize how massive that is and the undergoing of getting the products out to people. People just go to Meijer or Kroger or their local liquor store and they pick up something and it's a lot. more it's a lot more involved in that and so I want to make sure that I said something about them.
Anastasha Osborn:I want to give a big thank you to the both of you for joining us here in the LARA Living Room today. To our listeners, whether you're rolling up or pouring up a glass, one thing is very clear from this episode, and that is thoughtful regulation keeps these industries safe, fair, and moving forward. If you would like to learn more about the Cannabis Regulatory Agency or the Michigan Liquor Control Commission, you can find those links here in our episode notes. And as always, stay curious, stay informed, and from our living room to yours, we'll see you next time.
