A Conversation with LARA Director Marlon Brown

In this episode of the LARA Living Room, we sit down with LARA Director Marlon Brown to discuss his background and his path to becoming the Director of the Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs. 

Transcript

Anastasha Osborn: 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the LARA Living Room. I am Anastasha Osborne, your host. And today we are going to be taking a closer look at the heart of LARA. And if you missed the first episode or maybe you just need a refresher, LARA stands for the Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs. And with that being said, if you missed the first episode, I highly encourage you to go back and listen. It was a great introduction as to kind of what this podcast is going to be all about. So if you haven't, go check it out and then come back and listen to this one. So in today's episode, we are actually going to be sitting back down with Marlon Brown, who is the director here at LARA. And we're really going to dive more into his background, leadership style, and really the important work that we do here at LARA. And again, as a refresher. Director Brown is a member of Governor Gretchen Whitmer's cabinet, and he leads the State Department, LARA, that is responsible really for the vast majority of Michigan's regulatory environment. So we'll kind of dive into what that really means here in just a moment. So again, like I said, we're going to really explore his leadership journey, the critical role that LARA gets to play in everyday lives of Michiganders, and again, how we protect people and how we promote business. So you'll hear us say that a lot. That is our mission statement So as always, warm up your coffee, get comfortable, and if you are on the road, please make sure to drive safe. Watch out for those orange barrels while you're out there. All right, well, you are officially now in the Lara living room. Well, Marlon, welcome back.

Marlon Brown: 1:54

Thanks for having me back. I guess the first episode went okay.

Anastasha Osborn: 1:58

You know, I think it went all right. No complaints yet. Uh, so I kind of wanted to start, you know, a little bit about you. I know our first episode was a lot about kind of what LARA does. Um, so I wanted you to share just a little bit about your background and really what led you to leadership and specifically this role at LARA.

Marlon Brown: 2:16

Definitely. Well, my background is actually in political science and public administration. I attended school at American University for my undergraduate, and then I pursued graduate studies at both the University of Delaware, go Blue Hens, and also Valdosta State University. And so I've always known that I wanted to go into public service and government. I was one of those kids that actually liked to watch the State of the Union address and watch the presidential inauguration and pay attention to what was going on in politics. And so really, when I started working for state government, it was in the Supreme Court And we're recording this right now in my office. And I look out across the parking lot and I can see the Hall of Justice. And that is where I started my state government career. I've been with the state of Michigan now for 15 years. And I've been in a variety of departments. So whether it was the Supreme Court, the state budget office, the Department of Transportation, or now in LARA, I feel like I've gotten a really great experience of understanding how state government works and how it can have an impact on the people of this state So I came to LARA in 2019 and that was actually in the policy and legislative affairs role. We call it OPLA here and I worked there for about two years and it was really a great education on how LARA operates because at any time we've got a couple hundred bills that we're monitoring in the legislature, different ideas on how regulations can be improved, tweaked, lessened, or new things that we should be regulating. And so after After spending some time working in policy, I had a chance to move into the director's office as chief administrative officer, and that really kind of furthered my exploration into all things LARA and the different types of programs and activities that we have here. And then in 2023, former LARA director Orlene Hawks retired from state service after 25 years, and at the time I was asked to step in as acting director, and eventually asked to stay on as permanent director. And so that is kind of like a snapshot into my state government career. You know, I tell people all the time, I had no idea when I first started working at state government that one day I could be in position to lead a state department. And so it's been a phenomenal ride and one that I'm grateful for every single day.

Anastasha Osborn: 4:43

Yeah, no, that's incredible. I was just thinking, you mentioned you've worked in a lot of different departments, different roles in state government.

Marlon Brown: 4:53

Thank you.

Anastasha Osborn: 4:53

And it made me reflect a little bit just on my time working in state government. And I've only worked for LARA. That's the only department I've been in. So I know I am biased. And so my question for you is, because you've been in public service for so many years, and again, in so many different areas, and you lead a department that really does touch everything, as we mentioned in our first episode, occupational licensing, construction codes, cannabis, all of that good stuff. What does leadership look like you know, here at LARA.

Marlon Brown: 5:25

Well, I'll say the quick answer is leadership is very complex. We have a really complex agency. There's a lot of different things that we do. I always say, I use a car analogy, right? You drive a car, so you think you know how it works. But when you pop that hood, you realize there's so much more that you don't understand. And that was my experience moving from the policy and legislative role into the director's office. I thought I had an idea of what LARA did, and there was still so much more that I was learning. But that's the beauty of LARA is that I'm learning every day. And so that becomes a part of my leadership, understanding what I don't know and being willing to learn and to grow and to rely on others to help me understand and be in a position to lead the best way I can. I would also say there are some lessons I've learned about leadership being in a role like this. One of them is that you do have to challenge the status quo. And I say doing that in a constructive way. And so last year, LARA, we talked a lot about the pursuit of excellence and that being different from perfection. You know, challenging the status quo is saying, how can we do this better? How can we continue to go after doing excellence in all that we do? And so I think there's a healthy way to do that, always striving for more and being constructive in how we're challenging the status quo. The second is just relying on team members. I tell our team members all the time that I cannot do my job if they're not doing their job effectively. And so we have subject matter experts all over the place. We have people who work for LARA who are nurses or who have backgrounds in the skilled trades or inspecting elevators or things like that. Those are areas that I do not have proficiency in. And so I rely on a lot of skilled team members to know their craft, to know their job, and then to be able to advance things up the food chain. Like, hey, we should do this differently. I've worked in this field for 20 years, I think this would be an improvement. And so those are the types of things that I listen to because I need our team members who have the experience to help me understand where we can improve. And then the last thing is, you know, when you realize what you don't know, it kind of forces you to be humble. And so I try to stay humble in this role and realize that, yes, I get to have the fancy title and be out front on advocating on behalf of the department. But at the sport. We need each other. And when I think about what, how awesome of a privilege it is to lead this department, that is what keeps me grounded and humbled and hopefully able to lead in the best way that I can.

Anastasha Osborn: 8:10

Yeah. Two things actually popped into my head when you were talking. And one of them is kind of the idea, right? When you are, and again, we mentioned in our first episode, we have a lot of different bureaus and agencies. And when you're in those bureaus specifically or within those agencies specifically, you get that tunnel vision, right? So you start to only see what it is that you do. You don't see the bigger picture of all that LARA does. And from my experience working with a cannabis regulatory agency, I'm only thinking about the cannabis world. I'm only thinking about what's going on in our world. And so it was... It was incredible when I was able to eventually come up to the director's office and I was able to kind of see a bigger bird's eye view of everything that we did and everything that we were able to do together and the leadership and everybody working together as a team. It feels very welcoming and it didn't feel like so scary as I thought it was going to be. And everyone thinks the director's office and they get nervous. So it really was. I think the leadership here really does have that trickle down effect. I think being very humble, as you mentioned, and having that open door, I think it just makes it, it trickles down to everyone else, right? They want to do a better job. They want to work harder and work together. So I definitely see that happening. From

Marlon Brown: 9:29

the top down. And one of the things you mentioned about working in your specific area, being cannabis at the time, and not really understanding everything else that LARA did, I think that's one of the great reasons why we're doing this podcast is that we have people who work for LARA. They'll listen to this and they'll say, oh, that's what BCC does, Bureau of Construction Codes for people who don't work for LARA, or that's what the Bureau of Fire Services does. And so it's really an education for all of us to better appreciate the diversity of things that we do at LARA.

Anastasha Osborn: 9:58

Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about our tagline here at LARA. So people probably hear us say all the time, you know, we're protecting people, we're promoting business. So what does that actually mean and look like in practice?

Marlon Brown: 10:10

That's a really good one. You know, I said I started inLARA Lara in 2019. And at the time, the department had gone through a reorganization, meaning some of the programs that LARA previously oversaw were transferred to other departments. So a couple of the things, unemployment insurance, for example, used to be part of LARA. And then again, moved to the Department of Labor and Economic Opportunity as part of a reorg in 2019. So at the time, the leadership used that reorganization to reevaluate its mission, vision, and values. And so up to that time, Lara had the tagline, customer-driven, business-minded, which was really a good tagline. It had been that way, I think, for probably the better part of a decade. And so we kind of started there. We looked at what our revised mission statement ended up being. And it was a little bit longer than I like when you try to remember what it is and be able to rattle it off the top of your head. But our mission was that we protect people and promote business in Michigan through transparent and accessible regulatory solutions. And so it doesn't really roll off the tongue, but it still encapsulates what we do. And so I thought about football. One school said is play like a champion today. And so that's their mantra. And so they said, well, what in this mission statement will really resonate? What can I just boil it down to at the end of the day? And it was protect people and promote business, which really talks about the two functions that we perform as a regulatory agency. The first being protecting the health, safety, and well-being of Michiganders. So that's a public protection piece. And then the second is that we actually do play a role in the economic vitality of our state because we are helping people to start and run a business. And it doesn't matter whether you are the business owner or you work for the business, you're part of that economic engine. And so we get to play a part in that. But at the end of the day, we talk about how diverse LARA is. We have a lot of different functions, but they all still funnel back to that key mission of we're here to protect people and we're here to promote business. And if we focus on doing both of those activities, then we ultimately increase the quality of life here in Michigan. We want it to be a great place to live, work and play.

Anastasha Osborn: 12:40

Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned kind of programs. Can you have or do you have, I guess, any examples of programs or decisions where you have really seen that mission come to life?

Marlon Brown: 12:52

Yeah, one of the benefits of being in the director's office is getting the opportunity to shadow some of our inspectors. And you've been on a couple of our inspections as well, Anastasha. So the first one I'm going to say where we see our mission come to life is actually something that we did together, and that was to go on an amusement inspection at Michigan Adventure last spring. And so, you know, something we probably don't think about when we take our kids or our families to a carnival or to a theme park or what have you is all of the work that goes into inspecting those rides to make sure they're safe to get on. And, you know, people love the thrill ride, but we don't want the thrill to turn dangerous. And so when we tagged along with the inspector, you know, we walked up a water slide so that we could actually see the different pieces where they connect together to make sure that they're not loose and that nobody's going to, you know, tear their skin while riding down it or something like that and then of course who can forget climbing up to the top of the Mohawk roller coaster I always tell people I am not a roller coaster enthusiast myself but climbing up the roller coaster was really fun and so that's one of those things where it's like yeah that's somebody's job and they're doing that so that our families can make sure that when we go out to the amusement park that we have a fun time And a safe time. I'd also say another one that we did just recently is a school construction visit. And so Mount Hope School right here in Lansing was a place that we got to visit. They're currently building it and hoping to open up for the coming school year. And it was really just amazing to see our Bureau of Construction Code and our Bureau of Fire Services teaming up together to make sure that the school is passing its inspections and that everything is in place. so that kids will have a wonderful new school facility to learn in this fall and so I love seeing that I love getting a better understanding of what our inspectors do and how it contributes to our work as a department but then you see at the other end of that what does that lead to it leads to a brand new school it leads to thrills and chills on the roller coaster but it's a really great intersection of how our work comes to play in real life the last thing I'll say though is that yes it's great to go on inspections but I also get the the the nit and gritty if you will of what being a licensee looks like and that is actually through my family so my wife is a nurse and which means she's licensed through LARA and you know I'll see the little you know licensure renewal card come in the mail addressed to her and I'll see her log into the system and do her renewal and you know even here if something doesn't work well and so you know we We're not just oblivious to what the real life experience of being a licensee is like. You know, I hear from it firsthand what went well, what did not go well. And so that is another way that we see our programs come to real life. How does it impact the person on the other end that has to utilize our services or utilize our programs?

Anastasha Osborn: 16:14

Yeah. You know, I'm thinking about a little bit, what's one thing? And again, I know we kind of were talking about a lot of the impact that we have. everything that we're doing. But what is something that you wish more people understood you know, about LARA's impact specifically?

Marlon Brown: 16:29

No, that's a really good question. And I thought about this a couple of ways. You know, we do talk about the impact that LARA has. You know, once you're born, you know, many of us are born in hospitals. We have a role in in regulating hospitals or, you know, whether it's a midwife or a doctor who who helps you come into this world. We have a role in licensing and regulating those professions. And even on the exact opposite end of the spectrum, when your loved ones are laid to rest. We have a role in regulating mortuary science, and the state cemetery commissioner is part of LARA. So we really do have an impact on one's life throughout their entire life cycle, if you will. And that is a tremendous responsibility. It's also a tremendous privilege. But I think the thing that I would want people to most understand about LARA is, you know, there are real people that work in this department that care deeply about what they're doing and see it as a way to make a difference in the world. And so a lot of times when we talk about government, it's like, oh, those politicians or oh, those Lansing bureaucrats. And I think we have to step back from that. And that's what I'm hopeful with this podcast is that we can see the faces behind the rules and the regulations and behind the inspections and realize these are real people. They have a job. They're proud of their job. They see their job as having a positive impact in their state and in their community. And it is something to be proud of. And so, yeah, we're real people with real jobs, and we care deeply about those jobs. And then the last thing I'd say is regulation is not a one-way street. we require partnership with a lot of different people in order for regulation to be effective. And it starts with the legislature. They will create laws and then leave it up to us to enforce it. But we have to work with our licensees. We have to work with professional associations. We have to work with impacted parties. Anyone who has a complaint, we have to work with. And so it's really, in order for us to be effective, we have to be positively working with a variety of stakeholders. So I'd like to think that we are not part of the problem but part of the solution, and that comes with having an open, honest dialogue and working relationship with a variety of people.

Anastasha Osborn: 19:15

Yeah, you mentioned we are just people, right? And a lot of our work as public servants is a thankless job. And a lot of our work happens very quietly, behind the scenes. people don't really know exactly all the things that we do. Can you kind of give us a did you know moment that actually might surprise some of our listeners?

Marlon Brown: 19:38

Definitely. In the first episode, we kind of talked about what is a surprise that LARA does, and that's the Unarmed Combat Commission. But the did you know moment I wanted to say for this episode is actually an experience I had when I was in the legislative and policy office. And One day I got a call from a state senator in Indiana that wanted to talk about the Indiana, Michigan state line remonumentation effort. And I had no idea what any of those words meant. I was like, what did you just say to me? And did a little bit of research and found out that we have an office in LARA called the State Survey and Land Remonumentation Office. And if you type remonumentation into Microsoft Word, it always thinks that it's spelled wrong or that it's a made-up word. But what that means is that we have the State Boundary Commission. The State Boundary Commission helps to deal with land survey at a local level, at a state level. If there are disputes over where municipal jurisdictions start and end, where people's individual property starts and ends, that impacts where you pay taxes and all sorts of different things. And so this state senator was calling us because... We obviously share a border with Indiana and the border had not been surveyed in several decades. And there are land surveyors that literally walk land and they put in posts in the ground. And sometimes those posts are wooden posts. Sometimes they're cement posts or steel posts. And every so often you have to go back and make sure that the posts are still there so that you have a physical record of where the land is divided. And so I was assured that we did know where the Michigan-Indiana boundary exists, that we weren't talking about a matter of miles, but a matter of inches and that sort of thing. But it does make a difference at the local level, at the city level, at the county level, and even for individual property owners to know where their property starts and where someone else's property begins. And so it's actually been a fascinating issue. It's one that our legislature has been working on in partnership with the Indiana legislature. It's been an ongoing project, but it's just one of those things when I first heard it, I assumed that the senator had the wrong department. And I learned very quickly to not second guess somebody when they say, hey, I'm calling about this issue. Does LARA do it? Chances are we do. So there you go. Next time you're driving into Ohio or into Michigan or Indiana and you see the welcome to state sign or the official state line sign, know that someone at LARA is helping to make sure that we actually know where that sign should be.

Anastasha Osborn: 22:32

I'm laughing because the question was what might surprise our listeners, but actually that just surprised me. I also did not. I just learned something new.

Marlon Brown: 22:42

Always something new to learn at LARA. Every day. We call it LARA University.

Anastasha Osborn: 22:47

I love that. We should put that on a t-shirt. Well, before I let you go, I I have to ask, what really keeps you inspired in this role and what fuels your commitment to public service?

Marlon Brown: 23:03

Yeah, for me, it is the people. And I say that in a couple of different lights. One is the people that I get to work with. We call it Team LARA. It really is a team. We use a lot of sports analogies here, which is funny because I am not athletic myself, but I think people can relate to the concept of being on a team. And so, you know, we're one team, LARA. Yeah, you may work in one area of the department or another, but at the end of the day, we're one team. We're all in this together. And I feel so blessed to be a part of this team. And I say to help lead the team because we're all leaders in our own right. They're all things that we are doing every day from, you know, from the newest person to the most senior person to really be a leader in their work. And so the people that I get to work with really make this special and inspire me. And then we cannot forget about the people that we serve. Kind of goes back to that value of public service. At the end of the day, we're in this job because we want to help people. We want to protect people. We want to promote business. It's about the people. And if it weren't for the people of Michigan, we wouldn't have these jobs. And if it weren't for the people of Michigan, we would really not have that core reason of existing. That's why we're in public service. It's about the people. But the last thing I'll say, and this is probably my mushy moment of the podcast, but I have a child now and I did not always have a child when I started in state government 15 years ago, but now I have a child. He's nine years old and I come to work every day and I look at his picture on my desk and I think I'm doing this for my son and I'm doing it for his generation so that the Michigan that he grows up in is a place that he's proud to call home and hopefully a place that he stays and starts his family in. And so that's what keeps me going is thinking about my son thinking about his friends and his classmates and the fact that we want them to love Michigan the same way that we do and be able to call this a home and a home that they can be proud of.

Anastasha Osborn: 25:14

Yeah, absolutely. We're really proud Midwesterners or Michiganders, whichever title you want to hold. Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.

Marlon Brown: 25:23

Well, thank you for having me again. And it's really been a pleasure to share with you and all of our listeners, but hopefully both inside and outside. Yeah. I

Anastasha Osborn: 25:34

wish that there was a way that we could track how many are external and how many are internal. Well, thank you again, Marlon. I really do appreciate it. Giving us a glimpse, you know, not just to a LARA does, but what you do. So I really appreciate getting to know you a little bit better. And to our listeners, thank you for spending time with us. You can be sure to follow the LARA Living Room so you don't miss out on any of our upcoming episodes. Coming down the line, we're going to feature some stories from across the department. So you'll get a little insight into some of our different bureaus and agencies. So I'm looking forward to that. All right. Well, from our living room to yours. See you next time.

Unknown: 26:13

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